Question For The Board Regarding District League Membership

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Question For The Board Regarding District League Membership

Post by Sam Armstrong on Wed May 20, 2009 7:13 am

In section 4.10 of the BARLA Constitution it states:
... All clubs must be in membership of the District League within the boundaries of which they are geographically located. All teams must apply to and have permission from their District League prior to joining any Regional League.
Can someone from the Board please explain to us why this is, particularly if it is the Regional League who organises their playing fixtures, player registrations, addresses discipline etc for the Clubs?? What justification is there to insist that a Club MUST also be a member of a District League when they provide none of these services to their Clubs?

"Regional Leagues" operate with equally defined geographical "boundaries" as those stipulated in the Constitution so why can clubs not simply be permitted to cut out the "middle men" (who are seemingly taking a large cut for little output input) and join their Regional League direct if they so wish?

District League membership, like Regional League membership, could, and should, be "optional" and not a "pre-requisite" for those who may express a wish to participate in an annual "local district" Cup, discuss very localised issues or who perhaps do not wish to join a Regional League for whatever reason.

No information is forwarded to, nor is help called from the District Leagues (as far as I can see), by the Regional Leagues so again I ask why MUST Clubs be members of them other than it being historic that before the Regional Leagues there was no alternative options available to them.

Supplying "freedom of choice" and direct access is the way we should be moving, particularly as it is now common elsewhere for unneccessary tiers of management to be removed to improve overall organisational efficiency.

Why can BARLA not move with the times and adopt this more modern approach and remove this completely unneccessary requirement?

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District League membership

Post by samsung on Wed May 20, 2009 2:01 pm

Are you aware that the NWC open age Regional League has a Management Committee that comprises representatives from each District League? Granted, there are a couple of "extras" as well but, nonetheless, that Regional League is managed by District League reps.

Obviously your youth league isn't quite so democratic.

Your obsession with everything to do with District Leagues is quite strange. They should be flattered that you think they are so powerful. Did your local league not want you on their management committee?

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Re: Question For The Board Regarding District League Membership

Post by clowesey on Wed May 20, 2009 4:18 pm

samsung wrote:Are you aware that the NWC open age Regional League has a Management Committee that comprises representatives from each District League? Granted, there are a couple of "extras" as well but, nonetheless, that Regional League is managed by District League reps.


So that's one DL. What happens if a new team sets up in area that does not have a DL for them to be members of (South Cheshire, North Staffs, North Wales etc? These are areas to which NWC would be the nearest league for them to join -

the constitution does say
wrote:within the boundaries of which they are geographically located

Are we as a RL supposed to turn these teams away. We are trying to grow Youth & Junior rugby not tell someone they can't join our league and therefore not play in a structured competition because they are not members of a DL.

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Re: Question For The Board Regarding District League Membership

Post by Sam Armstrong on Wed May 20, 2009 6:14 pm

Oooh ... look who's back!! This should be fun. Suspect
samsung wrote:Are you aware that the NWC open age Regional League has a Management Committee that comprises representatives from each District League? Granted, there are a couple of "extras" as well but, nonetheless, that Regional League is managed by District League reps.
And that answers the question how exactly? Would these people be any less capable of managing the League or their integrity be in doubt if they were there merely as volunteers and not as DL Reps?

samsung wrote:Obviously your youth league isn't quite so democratic.
I am sure most of our Clubs would disagree with you there Samsung as we always are happy to give our Clubs the floor and have their say (try reading our minutes!!) and, ultimately, it is not us who are saying that Clubs MUST be members of a DL is it? Where is the democracy in that ruling??

Your obsession with everything to do with District Leagues is quite strange.
My question was what purpose do the DLs serve when the RLs provide fixtures, registrations, discipline etc ... hardly an obsession, far too busy with lots of other issues for it to be one ... but 2/10 for another poor attempt at deflecting the issue. No

They should be flattered that you think they are so powerful.
Not an issue of being "powerful" and most certainly not me personally ... just that I believe that the RLs are "capable" of running without them. Correct me if you think I'm wrong but at least try to explain why without becoming personal if you can.

Did your local league not want you on their management committee?
Er ... I am the BARLA rep for Warrington District League so another stupid and somewhat ill considered statement especially as I was approached by them and not the other way round.

Are you now going to surprise us and come back for once with a reasonable argument instead of trying (and failing) to score personal points against me or will you do what you normally do and, having lost, disappear with your tail between your legs for several weeks as usual?

Stop hiding behind a silly username and show your true colours like I have the bottle to and I may, knowing you as I think I do, start to respect your opinion ... go on I double dare you. Wink

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Re: Question For The Board Regarding District League Membership

Post by mick doyle on Thu May 21, 2009 10:52 am

I think you will find he is from the worlds most famous amateur club and have a pie in his hand Surprised

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DISTRICT LEAGUES

Post by samsung on Fri May 22, 2009 3:11 am

There we go again. Obsession obsession. clown

If you are a member of a District League, I'm surprised that you should think they are so detrimental to amateur rugby league. District Leagues don't do any harm - and they may even do some good. What difference does it make to little Jonny who wants to play on a Sunday morning? Why, it doesn't even matter that some existing or future youth teams don't even belong to a District League. What teams have you turned away because they were not members of a District League? Could you not just direct them to their "nearest" District League and tell them to affiliate to them? Or would you just prefer to slag BARLA off and tell the poor kids that they couldn't play in your playground because nasty BARLA won't let them. Grow up.

Of course the RL is capable of running without them. It's also capable of running with them.

I'm very surprised that, with your obvious belief that DL's should be scrapped, you are quite content to represent one at BARLA. You can always put a proposal to the BARLA AGM - through the Warrington District League of course because your Regional League aren't able to do that with them not being affiliated to BARLA. Just go through the BARLA rules and follow the procedures, get the requisite number of District Leagues to second your proposal and hey, you never know, you might get rid of DL's - and then you'll be able to sleep at night and not have to worry about these poor outcasts who can't play in your League.

I don't "run off with my tail between my legs". Rather, I just find your anti-BARLA and pro-RFL obsession is tiresome and know that you won't change. I, personally, couldn't care less how or what you or your buddy think or do. You don't interest me sufficiently. I'm only actually interested in amateur rugby, my own club and my fellow clubs.


Last edited by samsung on Fri May 22, 2009 3:17 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : addition)

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Re: Question For The Board Regarding District League Membership

Post by Sam Armstrong on Fri May 22, 2009 2:25 pm

Before I respond to your reply please accept my heartiest congratulations on your elevation to the BARLA Board. Although having heard nothing "official" I am assuming that you have been promoted seeing as a) the initial question was asked of the Board and b) no other member has responded. Again congratulations ... I think you'll fit in nicely!!!

Anyways ... down to business.
samsung wrote:If you are a member of a District League, I'm surprised that you should think they are so detrimental to amateur rugby league.
As previously stated, I was invited to join to both relay information from the 13-15's to the District and also to attend the BARLA meetings on their behalf ... I did not say they (the DLs) were "detrimental" I think if you actually bother to read through my previous post I instead used the word "unnecessary" and I still stand by that.

samsung wrote:District Leagues don't do any harm - and they may even do some good.
So as they "dont do any harm" that justifies their existance? If their raison d'être is simply to be there and "not do any harm" then truly they are beneficial and I am clearly wrong! Rolling Eyes Stating that they MAY even do some good also implies that you were going to give an example other than a local cup but couldn't actually think of anything to write .... pity, it would at least have been interesting to see what you'd come up with.

samsung wrote:What difference does it make to little Jonny who wants to play on a Sunday morning?
Certainly nothing to the youngsters who are highly unlikely to even be aware of the District League as they go through the various Regional Leagues at their respective age-groups ... at least that is until the DL finally takes an increased interest as they reach 18 or so.

samsung wrote:Why, it doesn't even matter that some existing or future youth teams don't even belong to a District League.
Well yes it does actually as the BARLA Constitution says they MUST be. Mind you, those areas where the game is truly developing, e.g. London, Wales, the Midlands etc are coping more than adequately without HAVING to be a member of a DL .... why in the "heartland" do we need to be seen as so negative and subsequently not be prepared to move forward?

samsung wrote:What teams have you turned away because they were not members of a District League? Could you not just direct them to their "nearest" District League and tell them to affiliate to them?
We have never refused admission to any Club as we already do direct them to the DL, not by choice but because they are NOT ALLOWED to join us without membership of a DL.

Several teams have actually had difficulty establishing who their DL is as they are new teams in developing areas where there is no geographic DL and have had to affiliate themselves to areas with whom they share no history ... hardly benefitting the growth and development of these new teams this preferred system of yours is it?? Suspect

samsung wrote:Or would you just prefer to slag BARLA off and tell the poor kids that they couldn't play in your playground because nasty BARLA won't let them. Grow up.
I think you'll find that we are welcoming EVERYONE to play in "our playground" and we'd much prefer if they were free to do so without first having to pay homage and become a member of one of the District League "gangs".

samsung wrote:Of course the RL is capable of running without them. It's also capable of running with them.
You are still struggling with the concept aren't you? Why should we be forced to "run with them" when they have no bearing or involvement in organising fixtures, registrations, discipline for the players etc etc and therefore, as far as I can see, serve little or no purpose.

samsung wrote:I'm very surprised that, with your obvious belief that DL's should be scrapped, you are quite content to represent one at BARLA.
I was happy to take on the role, particularly after the Board tried to play silly beggars and barred everyone except "Full Members" from attending meetings. Of course this was before another stand down when they realised what a mistake they'd made and how few Full members were in fact attending/participating.

It enabled me to not only keep up to date with their latest ideas for the District I was asked to represent but also enabled me to be completely au fait on behalf of the 45+ Clubs, 100+ Teams and 2000+ players I also have the pleasure to be charged with representing.

samsung wrote:You can always put a proposal to the BARLA AGM - through the Warrington District League of course because your Regional League aren't able to do that with them not being affiliated to BARLA.
I would not expect Warrington District to put my proposal forward as it is my personal opinion, and for the record, nor would I whilst I was there representing them put them in an embarassing position by trying to do so.

You are also partially right about the NW Counties 13-15's membership status, we cannot vote or (and I may be wrong here) propose motions as Associate (not affiliated?) Members. As is common knowledge we were, like the 8-12's, Full participating members until we were disgracefully downgraded due to the incompetence and subsequent lies to cover it by certain members of BARLA's personnel. Had we still been able to propose and vote then it is highly probable we, as a League, would have done so.

samsung wrote:Just go through the BARLA rules and follow the procedures, get the requisite number of District Leagues to second your proposal and hey, you never know, you might get rid of DL's - and then you'll be able to sleep at night and not have to worry about these poor outcasts who can't play in your League.
Get the DLs to vote for it? Can I please have a pint of whatever it is you've been on?? Does the analogy "turkies voting for Xmas" ring any bells here??
Oh you are a one Samsung with that rapier like satirical wit!!
cheers

As far your astoundingly even sillier statement .... I will ALWAYS worry about those who have barriers put in their way to prevent them from playing in our League and if you were slightly less condescending to these "outcasts" you may even possibly have found some allies but your apathy towards them and their development is typical of the cancer with which our once great Association is now sadly riddled ... particularly by those who have instead rather than evolve have instead adopted a bunker mentality.

samsung wrote:I don't "run off with my tail between my legs". Rather, I just find your anti-BARLA and pro-RFL obsession is tiresome and know that you won't change.
At no point have I mentioned, as far as I recall, the RFL in this issue so your definition on this, like so many other things, is clearly again wide of the mark as is your allegation that I am "anti-BARLA". I am NOT anti-BARLA but am "anti" living in the past and dwelling on past glories.

I would, in fact, love to see BARLA re-establish itself as a respected governing body but frankly we have too many self-obsessed individuals merely wanting to wear the badge and tie whilst contributing very very little to prevent this once great Association live out it's last few days like some sort of geriatric dog.

As stated, I am not particularly pro-RFL and indeed accept that they too make many mistakes, but, at least they are seeming to show a desire to move the game forward. Having said that I am prepared to work with ANYONE at all prepared to work with us to take the game forward ... whether that be the RFL, BARLA or commercial enterprises such as Kukri, Utmost etc who wish to help... frankly I don't care as long as it helps our Clubs, Teams and Players.

samsung wrote:I, personally, couldn't care less how or what you or your buddy think or do. You don't interest me sufficiently. I'm only actually interested in amateur rugby, my own club and my fellow clubs.
Clearly becoming slightly delusional now Samsung, for someone who "couldn't care less" you sure do spend a lot of time trying (and failing) to argue against everything either of us propose to take the game forward!!

Unlike yourself, with your clearly self-centred parochial attitude to those outside your "circle", we, between us, have the futures of over 60 clubs, 200+ teams and well over 4000 players on our shoulders and are happy to keep arguing the case on their behalf against those, like yourself, who refuse accept that there is a desperate need to modernise.

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DISTRICT LEAGUES

Post by samsung on Fri May 22, 2009 3:56 pm

What would we do without you? I love you Thank goodness you're out there fighting our cause. There must be some famous sayings that important people have made about people just like you.

Incidentally - I don't like pies. Laughing

Carry on representing a District League, so that you'll be able to attend the BARLA AGM. I'm sure you'll be able to solve all the problema that there are at BARLA. You just need to get people to listen to you but, more importantly, take your seriously!

Get over yourself, please!

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Re: Question For The Board Regarding District League Membership

Post by Sam Armstrong on Fri May 22, 2009 10:50 pm

samsung wrote:What would we do without you? I love you Thank goodness you're out there fighting our cause. There must be some famous sayings that important people have made about people just like you.
Contrary to what you may think or imply ... yes I recall the "Sam Armstrong Show" comment ... I am not in this for me, I have no children of my own playing but I am in it for everyone I represent and will proudly continue to fight their cause.

samsung wrote:Incidentally - I don't like pies. Laughing
Dear me ... the rest of the Humbles will be having you ex-communicated for sacrilegous comments like that Samsung .... be careful. Even as a Lobbygobbler with a racing snake like figure I cannot deny I am partial to a pie or two ... or three or ... Embarassed .

Actually, there's the famous saying you were seeking about people like me .... "Who ate all the pies???"!!! Wink

samsung wrote:Carry on representing a District League, so that you'll be able to attend the BARLA AGM. I'm sure you'll be able to solve all the problema that there are at BARLA.
After their admission that they'd made a major mistake in barring almost everyone, we can now attend meetings as a Regional League, including the AGM, but it is sadly going to take a lot more than just one person to solve all their present problems!!

samsung wrote:You just need to get people to listen to you but, more importantly, take your seriously!
Yes, for once I agree with you, we do need them to listen and take the issues seriously before it is too late. We need them too to be pro-active by getting off their backsides and doing something positive but, more importantly, we need to get those entrenched in their old ways and with their almost Luddite-like views to change to stop simply putting up their defences and help move the Association forward.

samsung wrote:Get over yourself, please!
Never!!!! Not while there are still those out there with as much negativity about moving the game and the Association forward!!!

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Re: Question For The Board Regarding District League Membership

Post by samsung on Sat May 23, 2009 4:04 am

I think we should be friends now, don't you? Well - alright - not quite friends but, you know, stop having a go at each other. No matter how we think or agree or disagree, we do, at least, have the love of our game in common.

Truce?

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Re: Question For The Board Regarding District League Membership

Post by mick doyle on Sat May 23, 2009 6:47 am

Anthony you bit off more than you could chew there mate.

Game set and match to the pie eating food loving big fella dont you think ? Very Happy

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Re: Question For The Board Regarding District League Membership

Post by samsung on Sat May 23, 2009 9:40 am

Who's Anthony?

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Re: Question For The Board Regarding District League Membership

Post by peter moran on Sat May 23, 2009 12:02 pm

I think you may be confusing SAMSUNG with SAMSON , Mick. Samson is Anthony Atherton , St Pats OA International. He'll eat anything , including pies.

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Re: Question For The Board Regarding District League Membership

Post by once a ref on Sat May 23, 2009 2:15 pm

Don't tell me it's Cleopatra. farao

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Re: Question For The Board Regarding District League Membership

Post by samsung on Sat May 23, 2009 4:14 pm

How very dare you!

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Re: Question For The Board Regarding District League Membership

Post by Sam Armstrong on Sun May 24, 2009 1:39 am

samsung wrote:I think we should be friends now, don't you? Well - alright - not quite friends but, you know, stop having a go at each other. No matter how we think or agree or disagree, we do, at least, have the love of our game in common.

Truce?
Samsung this was never an issue between you and me, however, you decided to respond in your usual manner by implying I am anti-BARLA, as always, I will refute that and say that I would love to see a dynamic, modern and trend-setting governing body for the amateur game. That body should be BARLA but those currently in situ in the Board positions are NOT what we need and a massive overhaul and re-launch is required before it is too late.

I agree that we both love the game but come at it from considerably different angles, however, I am happy to again accept your unconditional surrender and therefore too your offer of a ceasefire/truce!!!

Samsung begrudgingly accepts defeat .... again!!

lol!
Any chance of any Member of the Board having the decency to answer the original question which still remains to be answered? Suspect

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Re: Question For The Board Regarding District League Membership

Post by mick doyle on Sun May 24, 2009 8:40 am

peter moran wrote:I think you may be confusing SAMSUNG with SAMSON , Mick. Samson is Anthony Atherton , St Pats OA International. He'll eat anything , including pies.


Senior bloody moment Peter Embarassed pass me my BLAZER Laughing

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Re: Question For The Board Regarding District League Membership

Post by Sam Armstrong on Wed May 27, 2009 8:34 am

Well a week has passed and still no response .... c'mon Board, this was a genuine question asked of us several times by our Clubs. Show at least a little interest and give me something to go back to them with if it is not too much trouble!!

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Re: Question For The Board Regarding District League Membership

Post by Sam Armstrong on Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:20 am



Seems no other method works!!! No

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Re: Question For The Board Regarding District League Membership

Post by Sam Armstrong on Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:01 am

Hmmm... over two weeks and still no reply. I am now seriously starting to doubt the claim that this Forum is in fact the "direct line to BARLA" it claims to be.

I have also just received the latest picture of the last person who posed a question under the misapprehension he would possibly get a speedy reply ... or to that mind ... an reply at all!!


Very very poor BARLA!!! No

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Re: Question For The Board Regarding District League Membership

Post by mick doyle on Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:19 am

He did,nt like the menu Laughing Laughing Laughing

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Re: Question For The Board Regarding District League Membership

Post by Hammer 13 on Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:13 am

Someone should have told Sam that he should have ate the food and not the menu, still I suppose it must have looked like a starter to him.

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